The mostly harmless pedant. ([info]stormdog) wrote,
@ 2008-05-23 09:46:00
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Current mood: working

It was a dangerous thing that [info]posicat said to me, on one of his first rides in my new car when he saw me shifting into neutral to coast up to stop signs. After telling me about how it's bad for a transmission to coast in neutral and it might not be the best idea to do it regularly, he said that I must be trying to become a hyper-miler.

Now, I'd never heard the term, but knowing that the internet is astoundingly effective at matching people with shared interests together, however unusual or strange those interests are, I intuited that there must be a group of people who are working on techniques to save gas while driving. So I looked the term up on Google.

And, just like I do when I get turned on to any new interest that makes that satisfying 'click' in my brain, I started scouring the intertubes for resources. Here's some interesting reading I found. And, while I'm not doing things like turning my engine off on the highway and gliding in neutral behind big-rigs, or lowering the level of oil in my engine crankcase to reduce internal friction, I am making a few changes to my driving such as taking turns at higher speeds and coasting into stop signs without using brakes. I'm using my psuedo-manual transmission (it has a push-button feature that allows it to act like a manual in the first three gears) in the Aveo to limit my RPMs to about 2500 when accelerating from a stop. I'm also going to inflate my tires up to the maximum sidewall pressure and, on the way north, fold my mirrors in to streamline the car body. I'm also going to see if I can find a northbound trucker and hang out behind him for a while. Not stupid-close, but enough to make a difference. If I have time, I'm going to take the back seat out of the car too. I won't need it, and it'll make the Aveo ligher and give Kuma even more room back there.

I have to admit, I do really wish I had a hybrid to make coasting with the engine off a little easier. I don't think I'm going to try it in a regular gasoline burner anytime soon, but reading about the 'pulse and glide' (that is, speeding up past your target speed, turning your engine off to coast down below it, then repeating) really breaks my brain. It doesn't seem like it ought to work, but empirical evidence shows it does. I love reading theory about things like this, even if I never actually use all of it.

And driving with attentiveness to gas consumption has actually made me a better driver too. I'm noticeably more aware of my environment than I was before as I keep looking two or three lights ahead and timing my speed to hit the greens. I don't want to talk on the phone because I might foul my timing and have to stop! And everytime I fill up my gas tank and calculate my mileage, it's like seeing my score at the end of a level. I can't wait 'till I have a ScanGauge so I can see mileage in real-time and can fine tune even more.

But first, a tangentially related article about wave propagation and fluid dynamics as they apply to traffic in amateur experiments conducted by a bored engineer on his way to and from work. Really interesting stuff, and will probably save you some gas too.

http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/amateur/traffic/traffic1.html

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And now, the main event:

A neat, and sometimes kind of scary, 4 page article about a guy who, using some extreme and, yes, dangerous techniques, gets 59MPG in an accord and is involved in competitions, wherein he scores into the mid 100s driving a hybrid.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/01/king_of_the_hypermilers.html

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How-to steps to hypermiling techniques.

http://www.hypermiling.com/
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More good how-to stuff. Though some of it is related directly to a Honda Civic Hybrid, a lot of it is not.

http://www.greenhybrid.com/wiki/index.php/Achieving_High_Fuel_Efficiency

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Instructional information from (Where else?) Instructables.

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Become-a-Hypermiler/

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A Video (that I haven't watched yet) about Bill Kinney, who spent $56 on gas for a 2000 mile trip to Hybridfest, where he won the MPG contest by averaging 220% of the EPA rating for his car.

http://www.podtech.net/home/3725/meet-hypermiler-bill-kinney

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I so want to get out of here today....




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[info]sideband
2008-05-23 02:52 pm UTC (link)
There is nothing detrimental about coasting in neutral.

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[info]stormdog
2008-05-23 02:57 pm UTC (link)
That was my instinct, but I can't seem to find anything to really confirm that one way or another. And I know that when cars are towed a long distance, the drive shaft is often disconnected so that there isn't wear on the power train, so that makes me think, you know?

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[info]sideband
2008-05-23 03:00 pm UTC (link)
The reason for that is because when the car is being towed the engine isn't running.

The "oil pump" on the transmission is powered by the input shaft, which is on the motor side of the transmission.

When you're towing, the motor isn't running, the drive wheels are disconnected from the motor (the motor isn't spinning even though the drive wheels are), so no oil flow. No oil flow = wear and tear. So towing in neutral = bad.

If the motor is idling and you're coasting, oil is flowing to the bearings, cogs, gears, seals, etc. Therefore coasting in neutral while you're driving is totally safe.

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[info]stormdog
2008-05-23 03:06 pm UTC (link)
Ok; that makes more sense. So what some of the extreme folks do, where they turn the engine off and coast in neutral for a while, that has the potential to cause problems on a car that isn't made for it, like a hybrid.

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[info]sideband
2008-05-23 03:22 pm UTC (link)
Yes and no.. In the Hybrids it all depends on how the transmission is hooked up, and what runs the oil pump on it.

Shutting the car off and coasting in neutral will have minimial effect, because there is still oil in the bearings and whatnot for the short distance you're coasting.

Towing is another thing altogether.. Miles and miles and miles with no oil flow.. that will cause wear.

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[info]stormdog
2008-05-23 03:29 pm UTC (link)
Hmmm. Ok; I have a much better sense of the hows and whys of this sort of thing now. Thank you; I appreciate it.

The other concern that I can think of is stress on the engine, or on it's connection to the transmission, if I'm going, say forty miles an hour coasting with the engine off, then I start it up in neutral and shift to drive. That's probably just a matter of getting a sense of what RPM range is associated with the given speed, and rev-matching before engaging.

I still doubt that I'll try it anytime soon, but it's so satisfying to have the theory behind it come together in my head. Thanks.

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[info]sideband
2008-05-23 04:04 pm UTC (link)
Oh? It's an automatic? Yeah.. different animal. I was thinking manual transmission.

In Automatics, the transmission fluid pump is the torque converter, which is what mates the engine's flywheel to the input shaft on the transmission. Without the engine spinning, I would highly recommend against rolling in neutral.

If you want to idle the engine while it's in neutral, the clutchpacks inside the transmission will take up whatever difference there is in speeds and adjust the gears accordingly. That shouldn't be a problem. I would recommend against shutting the engine off, if you want to save your transmission.

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[info]stormdog
2008-05-23 04:09 pm UTC (link)
Ah yes, that would make a difference, wouldn't it? *laughs*

Yeah, I was looking for a manual, but I ended up with an automatic because it was the cheapest and closest one at Carmax. Plus, I've read some bad things about the manual transmission on the Aveo on some of the forums on Edmunds.com.

I figure it would probably be much simpler with a manual to do the pulse-and-glide with the engine off; just step on the clutch and turn off the engine.

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[info]sideband
2008-05-23 04:11 pm UTC (link)
Sure.. if you want to wear out your throwout bearing prematurely, you could just clutch in and shut down.. Better to pull it into neutral and let it coast that way.

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[info]stormdog
2008-05-23 04:16 pm UTC (link)
Gotcha.

(See, it's a little known and embarrassing fact, but I have never actually driven a manual transmissions vehicle. Ever. One of these days I would love to learn, but I haven't had the chance to yet.)

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[info]sideband
2008-05-23 04:21 pm UTC (link)
Why is that embarrassing? I mean, just because someone hasn't had the opportunity to do something doesn't make them less of a person.

Just because you haven't shot someone in time of war doesn't make you any less of a patriot than I (who has) am.

There's nothing embarrassing about lack of opportunity.

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[info]stormdog
2008-05-23 04:24 pm UTC (link)
Thanks. I was mostly trying to be funny, but I appreciate the encouragement.

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[info]stormgren
2008-05-23 02:59 pm UTC (link)
"...and, on the way north, fold my mirrors in to streamline the car body."

Please be very careful with this, or at least reconsider it. It may, depending on jurisdiction, be a ticketable offense.

I was almost run off the road/got into an accident on I-75 heading home from Dayton last weekend. Someone who was running with folded mirrors and driving just ahead of me and to the left decided he wanted to be in my lane and didn't see me.

I'm more than willing to bet the folded mirrors contributed significantly to his lack of situational awareness.

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[info]stormdog
2008-05-23 03:03 pm UTC (link)
That is a good point. My car, as a lot of smaller cars do, has a relatively large blind spot already, so I find myself shoulder-checking pretty frequently anyway to make sure I'm aware of people off to my quarter panels since the side mirrors aren't often as reliable as they might be.

Relying more on shoulder-chekcing might be a holdover from my '83 Olds too, which didn't even have a passenger side mirror, nor provisions to mount one. Just a blank door.

I do appreciate your point about safety considerations; that might be a little extreme. I'll give it careful consideration; it may not woth much gas savings anyway.

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[info]awfulhorrid
2008-05-23 03:43 pm UTC (link)
Um. Actually a lot of those hypermiling techniques are both dangerous and illegal (in some areas.) Considering how much control you lose of the vehicle when you turn off the engine due to reduced ability to steer and brake, I'm not sure that the relative savings in gas is really worth it.

(OK, things like reducing the weight of junk in the car, keeping your tires inflated properly, and not stomping the gas when you accelerate are all good things, of course!)

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[info]stormdog
2008-05-23 03:47 pm UTC (link)
Yeah; a lot of them are pretty gonzo. But there are some that are sensible, and others that seem like they may be reasonable in a diluted form. I'm not taking exit ramps at 45 or anything, but I am slowing down less for turns where I know that I'm safe to do so, you know?

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[info]moiracoon
2008-05-23 03:04 pm UTC (link)
...and people wonder why I'm nervous about you roadtripping by yourself into an area with spotty cell coverage.

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[info]stormdog
2008-05-23 03:08 pm UTC (link)
Well, like I said, I'm not really experimenting with the more extreme techniques; they're just fun reading. You know me; I love reading about high voltage projects, but I've only ever built one of them. And it's a small one. Really.

*hugs you* I'll be safe, I promise.

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[info]brownkitty
2008-05-23 03:05 pm UTC (link)
http://www.aptera.com/

I saw this in someone else's journal a couple of days ago, and it looks VERY interesting. Won't work for us, we're a four-person family, but may work for you and your beloved.

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[info]stormdog
2008-05-23 03:09 pm UTC (link)
I've seen those and they look so awesome! I'd love to have something like that, or the Smart Fortwo when they're available, and I can afford one. Unfortunately, neither of those conditions are true at present for either of those vehicles. *sighs*

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